I frequent a few message boards online, and recently the subject of religion came up in some of them. This page is basically a compilation of the stuff I said at the message boards, by myself and also in reply to what other people had to say.

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This girl who goes by the alias of Alora posted a comment at a message board saying that she was glad that where she lived, everyone was Christian just like her. I replied, pointing out that only thirty percent of the world was Christian anyway and that diversity is a good thing because differences mean strength, learning, and variety, and any group of people benefits from being diverse. I have put Alora's following words in green; mine are in yellow:

I do like diversity just not in the way of religion and stuff like that.

Aww, that's too bad, cause spirituality is a deeply personal issue. :) As every individual person has their own unique view and biases on the world and on spirituality, there are bound to be differences of opinion - so who knows? All of us might be right, all of us might all be wrong, or perhaps there is nothing to be right or wrong about, so there's no way you or me or anyone can presume to say who's going to hell and who's not, or if there even is a hell in the first place. ;)

I wish everyone was saved and stuff cause it's really sad when only about 30% of people will go to heaven and the other 70% are going to spend eternity in hell. Which sounds like a very terrible place. Sorry ya'll bout that I hope I didn't offend anybody with it.

Well, I know you and other people who say that kind of thing don't *mean* for things like that to be offensive, but still, when you say that 70% of the world is so bad that they'll end up in a state of eternal torment that they not only need but deserve, you ARE making a very offensive statement, no matter what religion you may or may not believe in. Hell is a place where people undergo eternal punishment because they were BAD enough to deserve it, and people think that I shouldn't take offense when they say I'm going there? It's elitism, arrogance, and presumption all rolled into one innocuous-looking package that people call religion. There is nothing wrong with religion, but I have a problem with people who misuse it in order to get away with saying such offensive things.

Alora, I don't mean to offend you or anyone else with this post, just like you didn't mean to offend me or others with YOUR post. However, I did take offense at your words anyway, so if you take offense at my words in return, I won't mind at all - cause you see, it will just prove that you know exactly how I feel when people make such remarks as the kind that you posted and then expect me not to feel offended. :)

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Someone else at the message board then remarked that religion, along with science, is basically humanity's attempt to explain and answer the questions that we make ourselves. In reply I wrote:

That's very true; one of my Christian acquaintances even said that he thought he'd go crazy if there wasn't a God cause then he wouldn't have all "the answers." He can't see how I can live "without God" and still be a happy person, and then he tries to tell me that religion isn't a crutch, at least in his case.

Just cause I don't believe in his God doesn't mean that I think that I have all the answers or that I'm not interested in what "the answer" might be, yet that's what a lot of religious people assume of me.

Religion is basically a tool - when it's used *properly*, it helps people in their personal evolvement and gives them peace of mind and happiness. But this doesn't mean that people who are without religion aren't spiritual, or that they can't evolve or find peace of mind and happiness.

I consider myself agnostic. That means that to ME, no existing religion, in addition to atheism, convinces me enough so that I can risk my soul by putting my trust in it. This does not mean that I am not spiritual or that I'm unhappy or that I'm not worried about philosophical issues or what "the answer" is. It just means (like I said a few sentences above) that my soul is too important to me that I'll risk it on something I'm not completely sure of, and that's that. If there is a god(dess) then great, and if there isn't, then that's that. Likewise, if there is a heaven and an afterlife, then that's great, but if this life is the only one I get, then that's fine too.

Contrary to what a lot of religious people think about me, I am not uneducated when it comes to religion, and in fact I've talked to many pastors/ministers/whatever about this kind of thing just for the sake of being able to talk with someone about their personal views on "deep" issues - some of them gave me what answers they could offer while others were evasive or tried to shut me up. Whatever the case, I wasn't ever satisfied enough with what I heard to risk/commit my soul on the shaky things they had to say. To me, spirituality is something I can work on with my own heart, not by listening to what other people have to say about it.

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Another girl by the alias of Ryath posted a message, and I replied to it. Her words are in green; mine are in yellow:

I'm a Christian, but that's one of the biggest problems in my life: why would others, who haven't even heard of Jesus, go to hell?

Exactly: according to some Christians (mind you, I'm saying SOME, not ALL), people who haven't even had a CHANCE to hear about Christianity are going to hell through no fault of their own.

I mean, a serial killer who turns Christian would go to heaven, and some nice person who has helped a lot of people in his or her life, but isn't a christian, would go to hell. That somehow seems wrong to me.

I agree - if there is a heaven, I see nothing wrong with a murderer going there if he/she is truly repentant. However, the nice non-Christian has every right to be there as well, IMHO.

When I asked our reverend about this, he said the thing I hate so much: "The ways of God are inscrutable." But IMHO that's just an easy way of getting an answer.

You're absolutely right, and it bugs me that many (not all, but many) Christians are satisfied with that kind of answer. I was at a Bible study once and one of my friends' sisters asked: "I have some really close non-Christian friends, and it just bugs me that if I go to heaven that they won't be there with me even though they are completely nice people. Why?"

The ONLY answers anyone could come up with were things like: "You shouldn't ask that." "When you're in heaven you won't have any memory of your non-Christian friends anyway so they won't matter." "If you have faith you'll find the answer." "God will tell you after you go to heaven."

When I was 11 years old and in 8th grade I went to Bible studies with high school and college students... and it always bugged me that I and a few other people stumped these COLLEGE students whenever I asked questions such as the one above. These people didn't have all the answers but still, STILL they were presuming to tell me that if I didn't think like them I'd burn in hell. Puh-lease. :)

Needless to say I got a rep in my old church for "showing off [my] learning" and "asking too many questions" and "starting pointless arguments." Well gee, excuse me for being concerned enough about my spiritual welfare that even in 8th grade I went around asking tough questions to people ten years older than me. :P

See, I don't mind if a person who believes in a religion has all the answers or not. HOWEVER, I do not want people who do NOT have all the answers to tell me that they believe in the "right" religion or that people who don't think the way they do are "going to hell."

So I asked: "But isn't that what we expect those other people to do? Take on our beliefs when we tell them about it?" And the reverend said: "Well, we have to try. But if they don't, it isn't our responsibility." Can you believe that? NOT OUR RESPONSIBILITY, he said! A reverend!

Sadly, that's the view of many people.

And a few weeks later he said it was BAD to ask such questions, for that would destroy one's faith.

Well, he's just a poophead. :P If faith can't stand up to honest questioning, what kind of faith is that? I'm sorry, but I care about myself and my soul too much to put my faith in something that shaky. And we can debate on whether or not we have souls at all, but that's another subject. *g*

If Christianity is all about letting other people perish because it is "not our responsibility" or all about persuading them, showing no respect for their beliefs, or all about believing everything you hear without asking questions about it, then I don't even want to be a Christian anymore.

Exactly, Christianity shouldn't be like that at all. Actually, it wouldn't be like that at all if people didn't misuse it.

Although, I must say that even if every Christian stopped misusing Christianity, I still wouldn't become one. ;) My stand against all existing organized religions goes farther than just misuse. It's also the principle, but anyway.

One of my pet peeves is that some Christians think that I'm agnostic and left-wing just because I'm gay, or they think that being agnostic and left-wing "allowed" me to become gay. Why being non-Christian, homosexual, and left-wing are all related in their eyes are beyond me. It's nothing but a stereotype, and yeah, I guess I fit the gay stereotype seeing as I'm left-wing and non-Christian, but hell, my last boyfriend was a young Republican in some respects... In fact, he and I had strong enough personalities that I'm surprised we never argued over our differences like we thought we would.

My mind's a mess...

Actually, the fact that you're asking yourself such things and are concerned about such subjects shows me that your mind is perfectly normal. :)

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I discussed religion again with a cool girl named Ann. Her words are in green; mine are in yellow:

I think I became atheist at age 13... which is around the time some psychologists say that people really start thinking on their own and developing their own opinions on things.

Yes, some Christians said I must have been jaded to become agnostic at age 12 or 11 or whatever, which annoys me a bit... I like to rant about different topics to my friends and all, but I do NOT consider myself "jaded" or a cynic, and it annoys me that some people think that in order to be agnostic or atheist you have to be jaded, disillusioned, unhappy, etc. Well, no duh, :P of course we're gonna be disillusioned if we get all this Christian (or any other religious) doctrine shoved down our throats when we're little and then later our plain common sense tells us it's wrong. But unhappy? No. :P Of course, I have times when I'm unhappy just like anyone else, but I am not "generally unhappy" or whatever, and when I am unhappy it has nothing to do with the fact that I'm agnostic.

I'm sorry but believing in God is no different than Ares or the Easter bunny... and that's not demeaning at all because it's true.

That's quite right... it amazes me that most (not all, but most) Christians have this superiority complex about how their religion is the right one and the other religions are "pagan" and wrong... Well, I consider eating crackers and grape juice as a symbol of eating Christ's flesh and blood to be a pretty superstitious and pagan ritual myself. Just cause it's done in a sanitized locale and in an organized way doesn't make it different from or superior to the more "pagan" rituals of other religions.